 TRANSCRIPT OF Interviewer: Rita Pearce, a graduate student of the Elliott School of Communication at Wichita State University. Interviewer: It is May 14, 1998. The time is 3:30 p.m. I am Shakila Saifullah, a graduate student of the Elliot School of Communication at Wichita State University. This afternoon I am interviewing Ruth Clow, a resident of Larksfield Place. Larksfield Place is a retirement community located in Wichita, Kansas. This interview is taking place in Miss Clow’s apartment, West 221. This interview is being conducted as a part of the I, Witness to History program. Miss Clow, could you please tell me a little about your childhood.
Clow: To begin with, I was born on a farm near Buffalo, KS. I had, no, two sisters older, and three brothers older. And, so then I don’t really remember too much about the farm itself. As I think now, it was a house that was ordinary in those days. It had a living room; it had a big kitchen. And it had three bedrooms. Then another thing I remember about the farm is the cave that was there. And you entered it from the back, from the middle of the back of the house. And I remember as a child, maybe about three or four, I was warned, that, not to go into the cave so there might be snakes there. And I have known what snakes were, because my brother played with them, and they frightened me. So I really never went near the cave. But I knew they brought vegetables in the wintertime. And mother stored her canned fruit and vegetables there. So it was in important part of our lives as far as our food was concerned. And I remember that. (Pause) I said I had two sisters, all right. One was 17 years older than I, and one was 13. So I guess I was pretty well spoiled. And wherever my sisters went, that’s where I want. And if I didn’t get to go, my sisters told me I set up quite a disturbance if I didn’t get to go with them. We left the farm when I was four years old and moved to Emporia. As I was saying, talking about teaching. I think I’ll wait and tell you about my teaching, my sisters who were teaching at the time. And so we moved to Emporia so that my brothers and sisters, older brothers and sisters, could go to the teacher’s training school. Normal, it was, not school. And we, I couldn’t go to Kindergarten in Emporia at that time. See, that was 1904. Now, you can go to Kindergarten, much before when I did. Because then you had to be seven years old to go to first grade. Well, my mother decided that, I mean I think she must have decided, because I was sort of a curious child, and asked a lot of questions. So she sent me to the Kindergarten that was in the teacher’s training Normal, training Normal, at Emporia. And I do remember that, because the little neighbor boy, Herb Homer Noes and I used to walk to school. And I remember him because there were no redheads as red as his that I’d ever seen, so I remember Homer Noes. Then we used to go the back way, we weren’t too far from the teacher’s Normal, and we went by the school pond. And the school pond was very fascinating. And one day, it wasn’t too long after we had started the Kindergarten, that I decided that I wanted to go down closer to the pond. So, Homer went to, and we went. I guess we must have spent too much time around the pond, because it was fun. There were a lot of bugs. It was still in the fall, there were some flowers. And we got to the Kindergarten room and they had already started, because we could hear singing. And when you got to Kindergarten late, you had to stay in what was called the kitchen. And I didn’t want to stay in the kitchen, so I said, "I’m going home". So Homer and I went home. My mother was quite surprised when I appeared at the door, and she said, "What in the world is the matter?" and I told her. Well, after so many words, and down on my level with eye-to-eye, I decided I’d never stop at the pond again. So that is one experience that I’ve never forgotten, that you mind your mother. Then, let’s see, when I was seven years old, that was when I was six, we could go to the Kindergarten. Then I went to the public schools in Emporia. And I don’t…we had six grades, first, second, of course, and so on. And I remember every one of my teachers, except the fourth-grade teachers. I don’t know whether, you wouldn’t be interested in their names, but I do remember their names. My first-grade teacher was May Hancock. My second-grade teacher was Frances Riggs. My third-grade teacher was Sarah Atherton. Now the fourth-grade teacher, I don’t remember because she was only there one year, and she was tall and willowy, and I remember it, and wore very, very different clothes than the other teachers did. Because they were skirts which were black or gray and white blouses. But she wore fancy clothes and wore a great, big diamond. At least we in the fourth grade thought it was huge. So I really don’t even guess at her name. And my fifth-grade teacher I remember as Emma Weymeyer, who was absolutely a perfect teacher. And I think in all my teaching career, my attitude towards boys and girls was influenced by Emma Weymeyer. She never had, we never saw her without looking pleasant. And learning in Emma Weymeyer’s room, fifth grade, was fun. And then there was the sixth-grade teacher, Edith Jones. And she was, and coming from an old-maid school teacher, this is what I would say about here. She was a typical old-main school teacher. Now those were the names of them. Now the one thing that I remember that is so different from today, was how we got into the building when the bell rang. And so we lined up. Not the first and second grade. But the third, fourth, yes, there were four lines on the sidewalk at the back of the school. And we all lined up by grades. And there was a piano on the first floor of the school building. And a lot of the teachers played that piano – march music. So when we/they opened the doors, we were in step. And we say we have on the first landing, and the second landing and then the top. But you had to pivot, and woe be to you if you didn’t pivot right, cause that would put everybody else off. So that was really different. But we didn’t have any trouble getting into the building. At first there was always not only the piano player, but there was a teacher who was observing too. And she practically, she must have known everyone, well, the school wasn’t big. So she would very definitely would call your name if your were out of step. So we finally. Then when we got, the third grade left us at the first landing and went to their room, and then fourth, fifth and sixth, went on up stairs and we went to our rooms. And, of course, there was the long hallway that was a cloakroom in front of each room. Then if you brought your lunch, there was a shelf where you could put your lunch. And you hung your wrap in there. And nobody ever had any, I can’t remember of any teacher having any real problem with children in any of that, in any of my sixth-grade year. From first to sixth. And then I think of my one experience when I was reminiscing that I was brought to mind, was one, when I sold my first painting. And that was in fifth grade. And there was a boy, Harry, who sat across the isle from me. And the teacher has handed us each a half a sheet of Manila paper. And we had crayons, and we could draw anything we wanted to. And so I drew a little barn, box-shaped barn, with smoke coming out of the chimney and some funny looking trees and a path, and funny little marks off in a distance that were supposed to be something or another, I don’t know. And when I got through, Harry said, "I’ll give you a nickel for that." And I, boy, a nickel, that was something, so I sold my first painting when I was in fifth grade. And then the one thing I remember, that was in Emma Weymeyer’s room, she always had an unusual way of approaching something that was difficult. And I remember one time in spelling, she said, "Don’t make spelling hard, make it easy." And we had the word, capacity. I’ve never forgotten. I can see her writing it on the board now. She said, "Just look. It’s cap, then there was a space, and there was an a and there’s city. So don’t worry about how that sounds. Just remember the way you spell it. There’s a cap and an a and a city. And all these years, I was 11 years old, and I’ve never forgotten capacity. And then, oh, she’s the only teacher that I want to in Lincoln at that time. The children had a fruit shower for their teacher. That was something I had never done before. So, I think you either brought an apple, or an orange, or a banana or something, and we had a fruit shower. I don’t know who dreamed that up, but anyway we had it, and that was really something. And that’s how much we loved Miss Weyemer. And you notice that all of these teachers were Miss, they were not Mrs. And then I remember in the sixth grade, Miss Jones was rather an austere person. But I always liked here, and we all liked her, but you know you didn’t, there wasn’t any funny business in the sixth grade. And so you did what you were really supposed to do, and if you had to stand up to read, we always stood up to read in every grade, and when you stood up to read, and you came across a word you couldn’t pronounce, you stood, it seemed as though when you were waiting for somebody to read as if it must have been an hour before because the teacher didn’t help them too much. And then she looked over the room, and if she found somebody with their finger off the page, pointing to that word, she called on them, and they didn’t know that word, and they had lost track of where it was, woe be to them. So being a very obedient child, I kept my finger on the word where they were reading.
Oh, you don’t mind if I go back, do you, to the first grade. I remember a very sad experience, because in the first grade, because I was always such a good child that it was pitiful. And so if you whispered, it was a crime. And you had to go into the hall and think about it that you’d never do it again. So here was the, this is true in the first grade, you kept your finger on the work where they were reading. So this person, who was supposed, was reading, didn’t know the word. So the girl sitting back of me, because I was tall and she was tall, I sat in front of here, and she sat back of me. So she kind of whispered over my shoulder, "What is that word?" and I turned around and told her. Now I was seven years old. So Miss Hancock saw me and she said, "Ruth, you know what you do when you whisper." And it was the front hall for me, and I had to walk the full length of that room, and before I got to that hall, I was weeping bitterly and I must have wept so loudly that she didn’t leave me in there for long, because she came and she got down, and she was real tiny anyway, and she got down so she could see me eye-to-eye too, and she knew I was sorry, and she knew all of this and no, I would never do it again, and no, I would never do it again. And so she said, "Ok, you go and sit down." Well, she had a lot of persuading to do because I was too weepy, and my nose was too runny. And I was still weeping. Apparently I really raised the roof because she didn’t want me in there crying. So I got back in my seat. But I never did whisper again. But you know as I grew older, it dawned on my that really, sometimes there is no justice in the world. Cause she’s the one who got me in trouble and didn’t even get scolded. And so thanks for letting me go back.
And then, there was, oh, another thing that was interesting in the sixth grade. At this time, Miss Jones was the principal. She was the principal and a teacher. She had an office. Well, I, let’s see, there were about four of us girls, I guess we got in her hair because we were always through with everything before it was time to be through. And what did she do with us? She bought burlap, and she had some sort of a table, and we made curtains for her office. We fringed them, and when we were through, we could go into her office and fringe that burlap to make curtains. And that was fun. And that was really the beginning of extracurricular work for the, when you got thought. Then seventh and eighth grade. I went to the public schools. And that was, there was nothing exciting, I didn’t particularly, it was just so-so. And then mother decided, because my mother had always wanted to become a teacher, and she had, and my sisters were teachers, and so there’s only one place for me to go, and that was to high school at the teachers’ training Normal. So when I was 14, I entered the same type of situation that you were if you were a college freshman. I’ve never thought, I’ve always felt that I lost an awful lot by doing that. Because there was no, there was nothing for us to do. We didn’t have any study hall. You enrolled just as if you were in college. So, then when you got through with that class, you were free as the breeze. So most of the time you always had a friend you could wander around with, or went home and did what I wanted to do. No, that was not right. And the teachers, for the most part, were college teachers. And they taught their teacher-training classes. Well, it was a four-year college, four years normal training. And they didn’t call it a college at that time. And so then I remember, one thing I remember about high school, teacher training school. Miss Rogan, she taught history. And I’ve always blamed Miss Roger because I never went on with history. Because she was the most tiring person. And she wore a big hat. And she sat at her desk. And the seats were aron(cough) parallel to each other clear up to her desk. And they didn’t come down to a point so that you could see her, but they were exactly parallel. If you wanted to see her, you had to lean out to see her. And that was one thing about Miss Brogan and her hat. Another teacher I remember as a college teacher and that was Miss Askew. She was red-headed and very tiny, and expected her high school students to know as much as her college students did. I remember that. She was very nice, and I liked Miss Askew. And then, let’s see, we never learned to use the library. That was just too bad. Then I went on for an extra year in college, got a three-year teaching certificate and my first school. Shall I go on with this? Interviewer:: Before we go ahead more about your teaching experiences, could you tell me a little bit about your parents, your mom and dad? Clow: My mother was Pennsylvania Dutch from that ancestry, and Dad, Dad’s dad had come in steerage from England. And his mother was from England. And my dad’s dad, my grandfather, and I never knew my grandfather, as a child 7 years old, I’ve heard my dad tell this, was hired out to the neighbors, with a stick he’d walk up and down the corn rows and shoo the crows out of the corn. So he was illiterate and in fact, I think they said, yes, this is what was told to me. He couldn’t even, his brogue, such a brogue they couldn’t understand it. So it should have been Clough and pronounced Couff. But they couldn’t make that, so they just spelled it when he came into this, they just spelled it like they thought it came out, Clow. But then my dad had a sense of humor that was a mile high. And I think, my religious training, I think the axioms that I lived on had a great deal to do with my philosophy. You want those now? Laugh and the world laughs with you; weep and you weep along. For this sad old Earth has need of your mirth, it has sorrow enough of its own. And I think that has stuck with me. And there is one that he always used to do, in a Scottish brogue, and I wouldn’t attempt to. And when he gave it, it was always in a rhyme, it was rymticial. It was, "Oh, if we had the gift given us to see ourselves as others see us." And so that was, I grew up with those, and others, for goodness sake. And my dad was like the modern philosopher, he never knew anyone he didn’t like. My mother was more of the, Dad was such an outgoing person. Mother wasn’t quite like that. She was a wonderful mother. She liked to write, and she liked to sew and she was a wonderful cook. And she always had a garden. She always canned. I remember, I grew up learning to cook because my mother loved to cook. Mother never finished high school, see that was back before 1900, that was back before 1900. She was born in, she was 78 when she died, in ’44. So you see, she’d be quite…It was in the middle 1900s. And dad was 10 years younger, and he passed away when I was 18. But Dad had been a farmer, and the moved to the city, and he was not even a blue-collar worker. But eventually he did have his own little business and was quite successful. So that’s about my mother and dad. Interviewer: Ok, and we did talk about your first school and everything. Please could you tell us what got you interested in taking up teaching as a profession? Clow: Oh, picking up teaching as a profession. I never had anything else in mind. I had to teach. My sisters had, see, in those times you see, I was born in 1900, well they were born 17 years before that. And by the time that the 1900s came, all you had to do was go to the county institute. In fact, they didn’t finish high school. But they want to county institute and had to spend so many weeks there. And they got a certificate and taught. And so I was always encouraged to, to um, oh, I didn’t have to be encouraged because in the first and second grade, I was always teaching my dolls. I just had two and so I was teaching my dolls. So mother always saw to it that I had a little table and a little chair and so on, I could teach school. There was no doubt in my mind that I was going to teach, I just wanted to. Interviewer: Ok, it was always there. OK. And now can run a little bit, tell us about your experiences as a teacher in Kansas. Clow: Well, I can. Oh, I started out in a rural school in Woodson County. Where my two sisters had been, at Filmore School. In Kansas. Interviewer: This was in 19 hundred and what? Clow: Let’s see. I started teaching when I was 19. I had a three-year stay. And I started out at a salary of $70 a month, eight months. And I, well let’s see. It was a typical Kansas rural school. It was a frame building, one room. And there was a step that lead up to the door, and you opened the door, and there were two little rooms, one on each side, where the boys and the girls. And then we had a pump outside and our water bucket was in one of these rooms with the…. We didn’t have our own cups unless we brought them, but we did have a dipper. And then we had a stove that was . . . you burned. They had a wood shed and a coal shed. I mean it was some life. And they had all, Ok, you had to, oh, then they hadn’t read the contract very well. Because I, when I started to build the fire, when it was time I had to build the fire, I got $5 more a month. And I took this to the board president who lived right across the road from where my sister lived and where I was staying. And they hadn’t realized that I got $5 more a month, but I got it. But they took it out of the contract the next year. So that was my $5, and I think that started in September or October. Yeah, it was some time in November that I got, it was the first of November that I got that check. And then are you interested in the games they played now or not? Interviewer: Yes, I’m interested in the games. Clow: Ok, we really didn’t have. In my first teaching experience, I only had seven children. I had a sixth-grader, a fifth-grader, two, let’s see, two fourth-graders. That’s four. And I had a third-grader, that’s five, and two first-graders. And so then if there wasn’t too much organized games that you could play, but we always played. We did have a baseball and a bat, and that was it. We didn’t even have any jumping ropes. And then we would play Auntie over the coal shed. Are you familiar with how that operates? Interviewer: No Clow: Ok, you would choose up sides and we had the, the sixth-grader was always the umpire or the overseer or the supervisor or something. And so they would chose sides, and go each other to the opposite sides. They would throw the ball over, if you, who ever caught the ball had to say, Oh, the one who threw the ball said, "Auntie, over." And then the who caught it ran, and tried to catch as many as he could before they ran to a base. And then they had to come over to their side. And then, of course, we always. We really, that was the main game that we played. And base…we did have a ball and bat. And the sixth-grader was always the umpire. We had some form of a baseball game. And then, we had no equipment at all. Sometimes it was just fun. There was a wooded area not too far away, and it was fun just to wander through the wooded area. So that was about. The fifth-grade girls and the others sometimes we would even play that little game of Drop the Handkerchief. And then that was….no, we didn’t have a jump rope. We did when I was in public school, but not there. Interviewer: Miss Clow, from the first rural school, then where did you go? Clow: Then I went back and had another year and got a life certificate, went back to Emporia. Went to Bell Plaine for a year, then went to Augusta for seven years, and then came to Wichita in ’29. Interviewer: So how many different schools were you involved in throughout your teaching career? Clow: Well, let’s see. There was the country school. There was Bell Plaine. There was seven years in Augusta, and out of the 48, the rest were here in Wichita. Interviewer: So, did you retire as a teacher, or did you retire as a principal? Clow: I retired as a principal here in Wichita, Caldwell Elementary down at Boston and Edgemoor. Interviewer: Could you briefly go through those years a little bit, how you promoted yourself from a teacher, a country teacher, to a principal? Clow: Well, by going to school. (long chuckle). And then, of course you have to have a certain amount of success as a teacher. And I, as you know, from the beginning I loved to teach. And it was always a challenge to me, when I saw those, 30, at one time in Wichita, it was 40, but that’s too many. That didn’t last too long. When you meet these children, each one is unique in himself and herself, and know the responsibility you have for doing something with that mind for the nine months that you have them, it not only becomes a serious responsibility, but a kind of challenge that is invigorating. And I always enjoyed that. And I loved to teach, and I told you Miss Wemeyer had…she was the happiest teacher I ever could imagine. So I’m sure that had in influence on how I taught. I really loved children, and I loved to teach. So you, when you have both of those in your heart, you’re pretty happy. Interviewer: So next question is: How, has teaching been a pleasant and rewarding
experience for you? Clow: Oh, yes, I just told you. It really was. I always looked forward to going back and teaching. I got the rest of my education the hard way, in night school. I graduated from WSU with two degrees. And my graduate work was at Columbia University in New York. Yes, I loved to teach. Interviewer: How has it been rewarding for you? Like, what was the greatest achievement you got from your teaching? The love of your students? Clow: Oh, I see. Yes. I always had. Another thing, remember I told you I was too good in school. And I decided I’d never ask any child to be too good. So I just let them be normal. And we, sometimes had to talk it over, but I, yes, I loved my children. And they had a cert..I think all children have a certain amount of affection for a teacher. I think that’s always true. Interviewer: And you’ve been blessed with that affection? Clow: Uh huh. Interviewer: My next question is: Are today’s teachers different from the teachers of your time? And if they are different, how? Clow: Well, let’s see. I quit in ’69. That 70, from 98 is a lot of years. I haven’t had too much contact with teachers, even after I left. I think that the teachers that I knew, with a few exceptions, were dedicated to their, to what they were doing. And so I think the same is true today, they’re dedicated, or they wouldn’t be in it. Interviewer: Is there any other significant difference you see? Clow: Well, of course now you get. When I was getting my degree, all I had to do to get a raise was have a certain amount of credits. But now, after so long a time then, you degrees counted financially for you. Now say that question again. Interviewer: What is the significant difference that you see between today’s Clow: Well, they have to have. When I think of today’s schools with computers. (Laugh) Yes, my word that is true. And the magnet schools and all of those. Nothing could be compared that actually with what, as to how I finish. Interviewer: Do you feel like teaching in those days were better? Clow: Well, I don’t think I can answer that. Interviewer: What’s your opinion? Clow: I can’t answer that because I don’t know what’s better today than when I…I really can’t answer that. Interviewer: OK, when you talked about your grade school teachers you said most of them were Misses. They weren’t married. Was that the general norm in those days? Clow: You couldn’t be married. When I came to Wichita you couldn’t be married. I remember one teacher. It was a man, a principal, and his wife. They were married secretly. She still taught. When they found out they were married, she had to pay back every bit of the salary she received. Interviewer: Why was it that way? Clow: Well, that was a man-made rule. You just, if you wanted to get married, you (laughs) you went into some other kind of business. Interviewer: So most of the other teachers then were unmarried? The single women. Most of the teachers in those times were single women. Clow: Yes. That’s not true now. Interviewer: No, it’s not true now. And what did your responsibilities include as a teacher then, is it true that you had to build a fire, make the fire for the children, and do the sweeping and cleaning at the end of the day. Like a teacher had to do everything for the students. Is that true? Clow: That’s true. You built the fire, you swept the floor. That was it. You just did everything. Interviewer: So besides teaching, you also had do to the… Clow: Oh, yes, you were the custodian. Interviewer: OK, my next question is: Do you have any suggestions or advise for the teachers that are out there today? Clow: Well, either love it or get out of it. Interviewer: That’s pretty neat. (Pause) Do you feel like there are teachers out who don’t have enough dedication? Clow: Then I don’t think they’re going to stay in very long. I can remember in my teaching experience of two teachers who were in it for the money. And they were, they didn’t mind telling you this. And that was the kind of a teacher they. And their children were not happy. (Laugh) And their parents were not happy. But after you got on tenure, well, you were on. Interviewer: Tell me about your experiences the long amount of years you spent as a teacher here in Wichita. Tell me about experiences as a teacher here in Wichita. Clow: I came to Wichita as I told you in ’29. I went to Woodland, which was over in the north, and kind of a little west. At that time, we had an annex for the Kindergarten. There was one grade level for each, one teacher for each grade level. And our principal at that time taught a half a day and was principal half a day. Annnnnd, we had a music teacher. Let’s see, I taught art. And one of the teachers taught phys ed, and one taught penmanship. And then, well that was true pretty muchly until I became a principal in 1950. If you were a teacher, you taught something else. And I had taught art, so I had part of my, one of my degrees was in are education. And so, and you had playground duty. And at that time, it couldn’t have a thing to do with teaching, but I didn’t have a car, and I walked. And I remember I lived on Jackson, it was about a mile for me to walk. Interviewer: Every day? Clow: And then finally, somebody was going right by my house, so I rode with them. That was until I got a car later on. And, let’s see (Pause) Oh, I re. One thing, (laugh) you want something funny? Interviewer: Yes Clow: All right, the second-grade teacher, Edna King, had a project and it was having an old hen and egg, she was going to hatch a chicken. Well, it was the weekend, you know, there was nothing to do, you had to leave the old hen and the egg right there. But in someway she got out. And we had a big bulletin board across the second floor. Well, not a big one, but it must have been about, I don’t know how big it was. But the mother hen and gotten on top of that, and you can imagine what happened. So I always remembered that. I love to teach, I loved to teach art. Oh, one thing, you didn’t have a, oh, this was the first year I was here, and Dr. Mayberry was the superintendent and they said whenever the superintendent comes, we will send a note, and you’ll know that he’s in the building and be prepared. It was just a blank piece of paper. I don’t know whether the caught the job with it or not. And so my heart absolutely went out of me. And when he walked into my room, I can’t remember that I was even teaching, I was so frightened. My mouth was dry. I must have gotten through with it, and I thought, I wonder if I’ll ever get another contract. And so then when the end of the year came, that was the only time he ever visited, and when the end of the year came and the principal came to me and said, Ruth, he gave you a wonderful report. (Laugh) How that man ever, ever gave me a wonderful report I don’t know. Cause it was a blur what I was doing. And then I went from Woodland to Kellogg. It was, it was just a, the same schedule, but I loved it. Then from there n ’50 I went to Caldwell as principal. It was a new school. And that was an interesting thing too. I never did apply for the job as principal and never did apply for the job, another job, that was offered me. They offered me the art job teaching in the intermediate. And so, of course, I chose the principal’s job. They said why, and I said, of course it pays more (laugh). Interviewer: Tell me, Miss Clow. Were the salaries of teachers moderate in those times, like how, was it hard for you to survive on a moderate teacher’s salary, or was it comfortable? Ok, the salary that teachers received in those times. Was it a moderate amount of money, or was it good enough to keep yourself comfortable? Clow: Well, I came to Wichita in ’29 at $175 a month. Yeah, you could live on it. I even, somewhere between, in three years, I managed to save $500. Interviewer: OK, we can move on a little bit now. Tell me about your recollection . . . (missing when tape was turned) Clow: …body who would say so. The bank took over at time and cashed our checks anyway. I can’t remember anything personally, I didn’t, as I said, I think I covered the whole thing. When you spent a nickel, you better think twice. Interviewer: But you defect in you receiving your salary? Clow: Well, as I said our checks were in limbo. If you couldn’t find somebody to cash them, you were out of luck. Interviewer: Did you have hard times then? Clow: No, Ithe, now I’m not going to say the name of the bank because I’m not sure, but I’m sure it, I’m sure I know what it was, did cash our checks after so much. That didn’t last too long. Interviewer: Do you have any other memories of the Great Depression? Did it affect your family, your brothers or your sisters? Clow: No, because they were all, now my sisters were farmers. You know, if you had enough to eat. You had chickens and you had cows and you had pigs and so on. You had food. Annnd, that helped. And then my brothers were in jobs that paid pretty well. No, it never did affect their families, in any, in that way. Interviewer: The next question is: Do you have any memories of the Second World War that you’d like to share with us? Clow: I had one brother, no, the second war. Why didn’t you ask me about the first one? Interviewer: Ok, go ahead. Tell me about the first World War. Clow: You see, I was 17 when that and my brother next older than I went to war. And of course that affected our family no end. And he had married, and his, and so his wife lived close by and we were very close to her. And he was, that was when they had the epidemic of the flu, in 1919, wasn’t it? And he nearly lost his life. In fact, all we could get from him, not from him, but from anybody that was bringing news from that part of the United States was that he wasn’t expected to live. But he did come home, skin and bones, and so that. And I remember too when the war ended. And the first, the thing that in those days, the Emporia Gazette, I remember that, they would send out their newsboys, and crying, "Extra, extra, read all about it!" So I remember that time too. Interviewer: Do you have other memories of the First World War? Clow: Well, only as my brother, as it affected my family through my brother. Interviewer: Let’s move on to the Second World War. Clow: No, I had one brother. No, no one was eligible for that. See, we’re older. Interviewer: (Laugh) Well, do you have any other memories regarding the Second World War; how the economy America was then. Clow: No, you lived on what you had. I always, now this isn’t answering your question, but the best I can answer is in a general way. If I had this much money, I lived on a budget. And when it was, I didn’t ever think about spending more than I had. Of course, part of that was a small amount of savings that I had. Interviewer: OK, let’s move on a little bit now. I hear that you’re an extraordinarily gifted artist. As a matter of fact, I have seen some of your wonderful watercolor paintings. What got you interested in painting and art work? Clow: What was that last? Interviewer: What got you into interested in painting? Clow: Well, I had an aunt who was gifted. Now she was gifted. I had a sister who was gifted in crafts, she could do anything. My mother was gifted in her way, in sewing, I had a younger brother by the time he could hold a pencil, was doing the cartoons he saw in the paper. He really is a, was gifted. And I’m, I’ve always said, and I’m not depreciating what I have, I have an ability, I don’t have a talent. And there’s a difference. And I was always given the opportunity to do what I could do with what I had. And I think my brother was an impetus. His, what he could do, and he was always as we grew older, he would say, "Sis, you can do this." And I’d look at his work and think, "No, I can’t." And I couldn’t. But as I grew older, I decided I must have had this tremendous, I’ve always said, started to say awhile ago, I have 99 percent desire and 1 percent ability. And I used the desire. And so I , I just fiddled around with it. And the finally later on, I was in in the, I had, the one teacher I remember especially, and I would still be with him if I could climb the steps to his studio. It’s Jim Avan. Who did a terrific of encouraging me, and I worked in his, painted as a student is his, in his studio where there were truly artists. And I would get discouraged, and he would say, "No Ruth, you can’t get discouraged. You’re improving, you’re learning, you just go on, don’t ever give up." So he saw something that I thought, that I didn’t realize I had. Except he saw determination, and he must have seen that. And so, right now, again the determination shows. I have lost my center vision. And six months ago, another person I must mention is Joanna Hanks who did a, was a wonderful teacher. Ah, she encouraged me, and I would still be taking lessons but she moved last fall, in November. And I’d begun to lose my vision, that vision, and I couldn’t quite tell where my brush touched the paper. But wouldn’t let me give up. So, then the last thing that, so then after she left, I just. I used to have my, what I called my living my studio because I kept my table out with they special light and all my equipment on it. After she left, I just left it there for a while, then I quit. I just put it away. And, let’s see, that was in November, October. And then, let’s see, this is May. And it was eight weeks ago that a bulletin came out that there would be a teacher, a graduate student from Emporia, who would teach basic drawing. And I thought, "Well, I don’t need basic drawing. Why do I do this because I couldn’t tell the marks that my pencil made on the paper. And so, I thought, "No, that’s crazy." So, I just gave that up. And finally I got to thinking about it and I thought, Well, it can’t do any harm and I love to do this. So the first day she presented us with paper and charcoal. Weellll, she set up a flower arrangement. I had lots of fun doing that because I couldn’t see the flower arrangement. I could see the … I just did what I wanted to. So I flew a flower arrangement, I sketched it, and that was fun. I thought, "My word, I can see what’s going on the paper." So then the next time, she had another arrangement, and I had fun doing that. And then let’s see. I think we went along with that, I’ve forgotten just how long. And then, she was here for eight lessons, and when it came the place where we were going to have a model. And I thought well, "I can’t see the model, but I can draw what I want to. So I, by that time I had taken my watercolors over. And so I, it wasn’t too bad. Of course it didn’t look like anybody in particular. But it was a face, and I had, and it wasn’t too bad. Wasn’t good, well anyway from then on, I have, and Dorthy Koelling you know, and I, and so she said, "Ruth, who don’t you?" She gave me permission to use the big table and have a special light. So ever since then, I’ve been enjoying myself with that. And then I enjoy very much—I just got Sue working up in the health center. And they have an art background. When Janie asked me to do this, I thought, "Well, not sure because I’d had an art class there before. And I didn’t have any problems seeing. But thought, "Yes, I will." Finally I said, "Yes, I will do that." I don’t what in the world I’ll do, but I’ll dream up something. And today we did a stained glass window which was really fun. And it turned out pretty well and they enjoy it. And so I just will not give up. And of course my philosophy of this is: God closes one door, he opens another one." Interviewer: I do understand that religion is very important to you. Tell me about your faith in God. Clow: You know, it’s very simple. I was raised a Methodist and the Apostle’s Creed. I learned early. God the father, the sun, the holy ghost. Jesus Christ was crucified and rose from the dead and ascended into heaven to sit at the right hand of God and you know the rest of it. To me that’s very simple, but as I cannot put into words, Shakila, what faith has done for me. I don’t whether you’ve seen the braces on my legs or not. Interviewer: I’ve just noticed. Clow: On both of them. My hearing is gone, and you know that. My eyesight is failing, but I believe I’m the happiest person that could ever live. Interviewer: Bless you. Clow: Because of my faith in my God. I can walk, and I don’t dare get one of those scooters, those electric scooters, or I never would walk. I walk. I am so thankful for what I can see. I know that you have two eyes and that there is a place in your face for a mouth and that you have beautiful hair, I can see the general form. But that doesn’t bother me, because I have believed what I have learned from scripture, that all things are possible with God. And it, God is love. I was born in his image, the spirit, they holy spirit lives within me, with the strength from God. It’s very simple, it’s a very simple faith that I have. But it is tremendously strong. And I was reading (clears throat) an article, let’s see, which one was it I was going to bring for. Oh, it was the one about. Oh, I read this legend not too long ago. The man had been in a dungeon, this is a legend, remember, and he had, the only time he saw anybody was when the jail keeper brought in his bread and water. And opened the door and pushed it in. And finally, after 20 years, he decided, well I’ve had enough of this. I’m going to attack the jailer, and he’s going to kill me and then I’ll be out of my misery. So he thought about that and thought about it, and he even went over how he planed he would do it and he went over to the door, took hold of the knob, and it turned. The door wasn’t locked. So, he pushed the door open, and walked out into the hall. He started walking. He walked past guards and everything, nobody paid any attention to him. And he walked home. Well, that fit into my, I think into everybody’s religion: We have locked doors. And I think was I was thinking when I said, No, I’m not going to take that basic drawing, I had locked the door before I even tried it. And I think the same thing now. I love to do kittys, kittens, I love to do roses. Interviewer: That’s my favorite. Copyright
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